http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205?format=rss Tribe.net. Local Connections http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#9cf00864-543d-4220-bdc3-6252eb5fe371 Good information, i'm struggling to put my whole natal chart together , but here it goes; sun in scorpio 5 th house, ascending cancer in the 1st house moon in aquarius 9th house mercury in scorpio 5th house saturn capricorn 8th house is this a hot mess or what?? any feedback is deeply appreciated Thu, 02 Oct 2008 17:59:39 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#9cf00864-543d-4220-bdc3-6252eb5fe371 soulshine 2008-10-02T17:59:39Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#348c5fbb-9ecd-4a78-a99d-e98fb4ea02df astrology can be interesting ..i find it as interesting as anything i've studied ..i dont even think of it as 'mystical' ..and anyway really it might be nothing more than nature's synchronizations with itself on a grand scale, of which we often forget we are just a part of ..theoretically i see no reason why the state of jupiter or any other natural thing might not somehow reflect the moment of every other natural thing ..if its all just nature, happening all at once ..or sometimes i just like the fact that it helps me suss out my thoughts and perceptions, like a brain- storm tool or a focus lens, not necessarily agreeing with anything it says but at least then something to contrast and clarify my own impressions against ..i find it interesting Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:17:01 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#348c5fbb-9ecd-4a78-a99d-e98fb4ea02df $item.owner.firstName 2008-09-29T23:17:01Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#6da36fe4-c5ef-48ec-84be-7ecb91edaf7e OK...now normally Im not one to be into the whole astrology thing, but this is creepy. I here post some of the exerpts from mine: You are very sensitive to others' feelings, and you understand aspects of people that even they cannot express. But this sensitivity can be a problem at times. You may be easily hurt by people's remarks, even when no hurt is intended. You may pretend to be patient and pleasant even when you are quite angry about a situation that you feel can't be changed. You must learn to be more forthright about your own feelings, for you have as much right as anyone to be yourself. A very sensitive person, you pick up impressions from others very easily. Thus you sense what another person is about and can imitate him or her if you wish. You may be unable to distinguish between what is really you and what you have picked up from someone else. With your sensitivity and awareness of other people's feelings, you can put yourself in someone else's place and understand that person better. Sometimes you seem to be surrounded by energies that are very weakening, usually from people you are with who give off very negative energies such as resentment, hostility or anger. As much as possible, you should associate with positive and optimistic persons. This empathy has a positive side, however, in that you understand other people very well, knowing what is going on in their minds as well as what they say. Even while you are young, you can easily put yourself in another person's position and understand the feelings of those who are less fortunate. You have a great interest in people's psychological makeup, which you express now as intuitive insights. You have very intense feelings, which can be a strong force in your life. But you may find it hard to understand your feelings, because they are so complicated and deep. (Im an animator....an artist by profession. I write songs and do photography as hobbies. You can see my work at hobbitpunk.deviantart.com) This aspect indicates that you have a romantic imagination and possibly some artistic creativity. You certainly have enough imagination and ability to understand beauty and create art. You like beautiful things and dislike anything ugly. Your love of beauty does not apply just to yourself. You prefer attractive homes and furnishings, pleasant scenery, and even art and music, in which your tastes may be unusually well developed. Mon, 29 Sep 2008 22:30:35 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#6da36fe4-c5ef-48ec-84be-7ecb91edaf7e "Spidey" 2008-09-29T22:30:35Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#ebebd9d5-f897-4c56-af87-b14d77fb75ab I have taken a look at my progressed chart and posted it on my page. Virgo is predominant, and Libra has shown upa bit, since that is where my Sun and Neptune are now. My Sun and Mercury are in the 12th house now. As though the kings left and now the messenger and I are talking about talking.... Sun, 14 Sep 2008 05:17:04 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#ebebd9d5-f897-4c56-af87-b14d77fb75ab amiablehermit 2008-09-14T05:17:04Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#e497c59c-37ae-4938-9ed8-c3a52113759e well, very cool, Cat ..it sounds like you have a true gift : ) Sun, 14 Sep 2008 05:02:53 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#e497c59c-37ae-4938-9ed8-c3a52113759e $item.owner.firstName 2008-09-14T05:02:53Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#35773e60-db12-49e4-8144-86f7dbf0109e I love and I fear my gaining ability in Astrology. I sat in my room with 2 people I trust and started reading charts. After 2 charts, they were looking at me in wonder-it was as if I knew everything about their past and present. After 4, they urged me to try my own (at that point, I had finally figured out my ACTUAL birth time, my mother couldn't remember if it had been 11:25 or 11:29AM). All I could tell them at first was I was a grand triad fire (Aries with rising Leo and Sag moon) and that did not explain at all why I was "emo-girl". I dug deeper and with their help was finally able to unearth something-like where my uncertainty about faith and spirtuality came from, my desire for balance (say hello to Pluto in Libra, the sign opposing my Aries sun), my desire to seek firm ground (extremly little stabalizing earth in my chart, only one outer planet and my N. Node in earth, everything else excepting Pluto is fire and water), and my issues with my mother. The fear came when I realized how very open I was AFTER reading all these charts. I went to a friend's event and felt, to the fullest extent, her pain and confusion as her boyfriend dumped her. All I could do was feel and cry with her and yes even the fleeting want to destroy him physically as much as he destroyed her mentally. As of right now, I can only read someone's chart if I am certain I can get to my tree in the park to find my center again right after. I still have my bit of self-preservation intact :) Sat, 13 Sep 2008 10:40:56 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#35773e60-db12-49e4-8144-86f7dbf0109e Cat 2008-09-13T10:40:56Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#95725c60-a883-4601-8041-8b0217926421 interesting interpretation, Cat if you are just now getting into astrology you should very much stick-with-it that interpretation of your's of your chart is far above beginner-level you are perhaps 'a natural astrologer' Sat, 13 Sep 2008 01:04:36 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#95725c60-a883-4601-8041-8b0217926421 $item.owner.firstName 2008-09-13T01:04:36Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#03264a78-d657-4f9a-8335-df0ba7facee7 Very intersting. I'm also getting into Astrology, and also have a rising Leo. I equate my ability to my 9th house. Normally ruled by Sagittarius and Jupiter, my 9th is ruled by Pisces. Mercury and Venus are there, conjunct (less than 1 degree apart). My rising is 1 degree Leo, cusp of Cancer, and my moon sign (the emotion sign) is Sagittarius. Sag's call phrase is "I see" or "I percieve". Therefore, perhaps I see emotions. Wed, 10 Sep 2008 22:28:17 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#03264a78-d657-4f9a-8335-df0ba7facee7 Cat 2008-09-10T22:28:17Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#52e41cf9-5169-43f8-9e5f-c84dc8c26eb0 salut eniad i can see why i was attracted to your page there are so many similarities in our makeups priests atlantis taken over the whole thingummy I remember many lives as a male priest for some sky God and then very strange occurrences such as having been part vegetal and human in a description that resembles Atlantis, which could be a projection from our future into our past (!) and other things that are now emerging. THIS COULD BE ME TALKING c'est marrant spirirual law really works like attracts like i have memories of lives where dolphins and man mingle in a sort of etheric atlantean sea sort of under the water but again not really this reminded me of the vegetal thing i lke the idea of an incarnation as a dare sounds a little cheeky ON A MORE SERIOUS NOTE I THINK MANY OF us are here to shed the priest the inner priest who always wanted to preach night and day and in a way the challenge for those of that makeup is to NOT to just BE not make a fuss and flow with life or am i just talking to myself TOREN this is a brilliant post ta shan peace Wed, 10 Sep 2008 08:24:02 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#52e41cf9-5169-43f8-9e5f-c84dc8c26eb0 shan 2008-09-10T08:24:02Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#9fe673a6-2635-4d70-a929-c7b1dadb0130 hello all:)..thank you Toren for opening a door i closed a while back..over time..i have tried to delve into my chart..for some reason the information was always overwhelming and i could never muster the energy to swim thru it all..now.. i still do not have much time and energy..but one day i came across this post..it gave me a way to kinda take it piece by piece..so as i stand on the lawn of the astrology house/houses..three things keep coming to mind in reference of empathy.. 9th house in pisces moon in cancer multiple trines..this is good and bad so it seems..i have the tendency to shoot myself in the foot a lot.. i have a leo ascendant in leo.. i have leo in the first house and second..my vision on this is..i see these lions as keepers of the gate..like a fu lion outside a temple..standing guard..protecting the mysteries to come..i also feel that perhaps those of us with the lion..need the strength and bravado of a lion to help cope with all the extra info/energy that we process.. ok so that is what i have come to at this point... thanks again ~R oh..my chiron is in aries..a wounder healer that opens up his wounds in order to help heal himself and others...if not..i shoot myself in the foot again;)lol Tue, 02 Sep 2008 15:58:10 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#9fe673a6-2635-4d70-a929-c7b1dadb0130 Redtat2 2008-09-02T15:58:10Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#e95a78fb-95de-48d8-bc30-007eaac92dc8 ahh, could be that your vrigo / aquarius mix makes the visual aspect of reality more evident ..i'm not very visual/spatial ..could be you communicated yourself very well and it could be somewhat similar experiences, but looking and explained so differently? ..i think i understand what you're saying, it does sound like a visual/spatial equivalent to some of what i said ..it'd just be something someone like me wouldn't be very likely to see first-hand perhaps ..minds having different natures and such Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:23:49 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#e95a78fb-95de-48d8-bc30-007eaac92dc8 $item.owner.firstName 2008-08-29T09:23:49Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#adb56d25-9b3f-48be-ac09-ca468c77c840 I am not sure I communicated this well. I am referring really to a time phenomenon where within and during an interaction (movement), time sort of freezes (stasis), as though allowing a blink of processing time. The effect is sort of prismatic, like looking through a crystal. In those "blinks," I feel I am absorbing some sort of information. I suppose you could look at it as though it were a strobe thing. Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:03:39 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#adb56d25-9b3f-48be-ac09-ca468c77c840 amiablehermit 2008-08-29T09:03:39Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#28f5d630-5773-4e2c-a0ae-b5c08c6437b3 interesting it seems the combination of virgo and aquarius are very manifest in the phenomena you describe involving electronics the 'cubist way' of seeing people ..? ..i think i can relate to something like that ..i began to stop seeing people as 'static' forms a long time ago ..it just got too silly to continue to try to think the overly-personified conceptualization of 'person' can actually serve as an adequate symbol of a human being and the experiencing of a human being ..people are not our thoughts about them, they never were ..once one realizes, therefore, that the conceptualizing mind as a tool can and should never be an authority in defining another individual, well, then of course perception changes somewhat, heh : ) ..the way one was 'taught' to see people (and the self, for that matter) becomes merely a referenceable option among a great many that are possible, perhaps the abiding realization being that any 'static' manner of seeing people is bound to be blinding at some point if held from some mental arrogance or emotional selfishness Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:46:33 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#28f5d630-5773-4e2c-a0ae-b5c08c6437b3 $item.owner.firstName 2008-08-29T08:46:33Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#8705982f-94b7-418f-b970-75a1ab0e6c67 Green's books indeed are not 'breezy reading' ..i will be understanding new things in them still at the end of my life, I'm sure ..harsh lives, yes, but i think most of the world's population as a whole lives what could be considered a 'harsh life' perhaps, and certainly more so the case the further back in time one were to go ..Green seems to take a very Plutonic approach to writing of Pluto, it would seem, heh ..focusing on the pain and 'darkness' and any possible transformations that come of that depth, a depth people rarely look to in themselves or others on a day to day basis, entire lives lived, where possible, where such depths / dimensions of the self are seen if circumstance and happenstance forces one to take a look ..so, really, i don't think he's writing about anything more harsh than most of that which is common human experience, simply repressed or at least denied from consciousness ..it could be projection, but honestly i sense such 'dark' in everybody ..even children have it, but, if fortunate enough in circumstance, are so constantly in authentic motion on every level of the being that the Plutonic elements in their being and body don't 'coagulate' the way that of older peoples' with deepening conditionings do ..children maybe only begin to force Pluto away when they, very painfully, realize there are no adults who are going to want enough to do with Pluto to help the child through the Plutonic experience ..Pluto becomes incredibly stigmatized ..and so Scorpio loves taboos women have incredible powers as women if they choose to and are aware enough to use them ..the world even as it is is full of advantages that only women have, things the classically male mind/consciousness perhaps can't help but mostly overlook, be unaware of, unable to interfere with or oppress (except in the grossest of senses) ..so women have long been called 'manipulative witches' by weak or controlling men who would insist the workings of a woman's mind and consciousness be as evident to him as his own (when in fact that is not even naturally possible) rather than appreciate and have with it the complex relationships and communications where the autonomy of each is respected and enriching ..women, themselves as women, do indeed have power, irregardless of the world around them the advantage / power men seem to have in this world is not so great ..for every man you see rising to some position in the world that seems easy and open to him in a way it may not be to a woman or an other of some sort, there is a more 'powerful' man watching and wanting it to be 'easy' for that man for his own completely self-centered intention ..if the more 'powerful' do not agree, nothing will be 'easy' or an 'advantage' for that man ..perhaps it's true, the more 'powerful' are likely to favor a male, but to what? walking into a scripted pawn-like role in someone else's impersonal intentions? ..there is no richness, no 'treasure' in that, no true anyway ..life will still be as it is when one walks into such an arrangement and the true 'treasure' of life would still have to be found elsewhere, even if from the window of a nicer car ..we are all equal ..and who wants to play games or anything more worthwhile than games with people who play by rules counter to the true joy that can be had in human life? ..'the men' may indeed have 'the power' by some appearances ..'but are these happy, truly joyful men?', i have always asked myself ..the saddest thing perhaps though is that even people outside of such conglomerations of distraction are just as unlikely to do what it takes to claim the potentials of joy, happiness, truth ..the field much larger and more essential than the fields of business, fame, fortune, etc. is as wide open to anyone ..all are perhaps guilty of doing too little about it, yes? women are awesome creatures ..it is something every woman should know in life as soon as possible past-lives ..i don't believe one way or the other as to whether there is such a thing ..two things i am comfortable enough to talk about though is once i had some kind of..something..it wasn't a dream, it wasn't a day-dream, it wasn't chemically induced, it wasn't mere imagination, certainly not any experience of 'imagination' i've ever otherwise encountered ..it was simply very much apart from any sort of mental experience i had before or since ..for a few moments i saw a man in a field from a time obviously not of this or the previous centruy (whether from his clothing, manner, or even the quality of the sky and such), the man was chopping wood for a few moments and then fell over dead of a heart-attack ..unusual as he looked young for a heart-attack ..something in the death told me the story though ..this man was so unintelligent he was almost a mute, otherwise seemingly normal, there may have been a hereditary contribution to the circumstance but it was somehow clear that his heart was both physically and metaphorically full of pain, the pain of having been an almost perfectly selfless man, the sort who did anything for anyone as though he hadn't really the slightest concept of what else to do with himself, the tiny barely at all developed 'town' he had lived in was only smarter enough than himself to have taken advantage of his disposition completely ..he died from the pain of a heart never truly nourished in return, regardless that he had never thought to want anything in return and in the next moment i saw as if the exact opposite of that man, seeming somehow to be from a time as much as a century in difference, beneath a tree, yet another field, alone, this man for some reason was dressed in all black, nicely, were it not for how completely unkempt and self-neglected he was, the black suit-like clothing i did not understand, for if he had been minister, for instance, which would be fitting of appearance, this was a man who had fallen unthinkably 'far from grace' ..again i was only seeing the last moments of a life and a death that told me everything ..he was intoxicated, chronically so, to the point of contributing to what was, once again, a heart attack as cause of death ..but of the completely opposite sort 'metaphysically' speaking ..this was a man who's heart had for some time not given to nor even been 'open' to others, 'a black heart', as black as the clothing he wore, a heart full of the pain that is at the basis of what is hatred, the kind of pain, untended, that becomes hatred, somehow it was evident this man had every conceivable form of hatred against every human being he had ever known or could imagine ..and of this hatred, this pain, far more so than from the alcohol, he died interesting things Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:25:49 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#8705982f-94b7-418f-b970-75a1ab0e6c67 $item.owner.firstName 2008-08-29T08:25:49Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#0f8977a9-4efb-4f75-9f34-95f38f83ac37 I Have a Leo Sun conjunct Pluto in the 12th house along with a Virgo Jupiter in the 12th and a Leo Uranus in the 11th house. My ascendent and Mercury are both Virgo. Saturn in Scopio retrograde, and Mars in Pisces retrograde with both moving toward air. My moon and Chiron are in Aquarius and my Venus is in Cancer. Neptune is in Libra. South Node and MC in Gemini, North Node in Sagittarius. The 12th house is becoming my favorite place. My incubation here has been quite extended, but I feel I am now beginning grow up through the earth at last. In this remarkable time, many things are changing for the better. One thing that is a little difficult is "taking in" the maladies of others, and even of electronics, so that I am sychronized to their relative health or functioning. This is like a kind of physical, unconscious clairvoyance, and it can be very inconvenient, especially when it involves reactions such as the pulse rate dropping to 49. But I think I am still in a transitional phase, and this is like growing pains. My aura probably needs a some caulking and a new coat of paint as well. My interactions with people are changing, too. I think I am seeing people in something of a cubist way. Cubism was about capturing motion in a static field, which is how it feels sometimes to me when I am dealing with some people. There is a stop-action quality happening then to me. Again, I think this is a transitional effect. This is also a time when my established relationships are undergoing redefinition. I sleep a lot, but you tend to do that when you are growing. It would probably behoove me to look at a progressed chart and see what transits are happening as well.... Fri, 29 Aug 2008 03:46:29 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#0f8977a9-4efb-4f75-9f34-95f38f83ac37 amiablehermit 2008-08-29T03:46:29Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#c9fd6c9f-6c48-4a6a-806a-815f3971575f I have both Jeffery Wolf Green's books on Pluto. These are not light breezy reading. These are usually harsh lives that he describes. I suspect that he did not pick Pluto at random. He is a smart author by the way. I sort of remember a life before in a male body, in the States during depression time around the Mississippi area but it could be a parallel life. It did not leave a major impact. Strangely, it is the personnality that I felt as i was viewing the scene before being born. It felt male. I think that I usually lead lives in a male body but it could be that I have a harder time being a woman. It is the lack of power and respect that women usually garner through history. I am very aware of the social construct and have a hard time playing conventional female. I have also been killed in a woman's body at least once by the inquisition or something happened in the lineage that created a trauma. I was told that I had happy lives as women in an agrarian society a long time ago growing plants but I do not remember any herbal knowledge. It just does not come up. I am also having a lot of trouble keeping poachers off my land and having crazy guys acting as if they are going to hit me with vehicles in intimidation so it is perhaps an issue that I am working on right now though it is me mixed with something else. I am fending my way in a sea of men. There are no sure way to determine the past sex of an entity. I am told that sometimes reincarnating individuals can be homosexuals but it is not my case at all. I am totally straight. I was not brutal to women nor did I look down at them any more than the rest of society perhaps, more protective. I do not mind being a woman per se. What I dislike is the role that this society gives women, like being in the loser’s seat and since your beliefs create your reality, I could also be creating this for myself. If I am coming back here, I would like to do is as a woman and bear children for example. I do not remember anything. I am very nurturing. I would like to do it if it is not dangerous. One can switch sex anytime or nationalities, cultures. Some of your future lives could also be in the past. Tue, 26 Aug 2008 23:51:51 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#c9fd6c9f-6c48-4a6a-806a-815f3971575f ENIAD 2008-08-26T23:51:51Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#efced70a-41c2-4dd2-a078-acd45b25a378 interesting. jeffery wolf green's book 'Pluto Volume 2' is very in-depth reincarnation/evolutionary astrology, by far the best i have ever seen one thing he does say, you mention gender and previous lives ..he says capricorn/cancer on the nodal axis and/or the nodes being in the 4th and 10th houses can be, but aren't necessarily, indicators of a soul that very recently changed gender in incarnations, within the past three lifetimes usually. Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:08:09 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#efced70a-41c2-4dd2-a078-acd45b25a378 $item.owner.firstName 2008-08-26T20:08:09Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#66eba0fd-5ef5-456e-99a2-c6bbb0bddbc5 Most definitely my predominant Moon in Pisces. It is a dark Moon and in the Tenth House and I have always felt as old as dirt....not the oldest soul but old in experience. I posted that in the Pisces Moon tribe and some agreed with the "description". I am end of Gemini rising and my Mercury also is in Pîsces. I have a perfect trine between Uranus and the Moon. I sit down and get tales for science fiction stories that I should be writing if I were any smart. I am also extremely psychic. There is also a Saturn-Neptune conjunction, both retrograde and considered karmic, something about having had great talents according to a constellation. Maybe there were abuse of power in my soul background but my personal feeling is that I allowed myself to be used by grey eminences. I got the gift of an Aries Sun for getting me out of the mire. I remember many lives as a male priest for some sky God and then very strange occurrences such as having been part vegetal and human in a description that resembles Atlantis, which could be a projection from our future into our past (!) and other things that are now emerging. I also remember taking on this life as a dare and challenge and seeing all the elements in play before my conception. I have Jupiter in the Twelfth House, many theologians and ecclesiasts in my background. It also means elsewhere that you have an angel perched on your shoulder and manage to escape the worst as the last minute. This is true of my life. I was abused to an inch of my life, physically but especially mentally in a way that resembled black magic indoctrination by people who were naturally gifted in this and according to most psychology, books should be raving mad... Well, maybe I am but at least my life has meaning but I am still unravelling the damage. I do not remember many lives as a female. Maybe it is the witch archetype that is coming into play and I have always been called that. But then this world really love women, especially ones that have power no matter how soft the outwardly appearance, even in this day and age. Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:46:16 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#66eba0fd-5ef5-456e-99a2-c6bbb0bddbc5 ENIAD 2008-08-26T19:46:16Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#8ba36852-530e-4b3b-add7-c2a2919f2969 Good topic, as I love astrology and seeing how it all relates. I also like what everyone has shared. So far, interseting. I agree with water house/angles planets and aspects. I'll be brief. Looking forward to see what others share. My natal is cancer rising with moon in 4th(home). My 4th with Virgo on IC/4th is a stellium (6planets Virgo and Libra). Thu, 07 Aug 2008 20:00:38 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#8ba36852-530e-4b3b-add7-c2a2919f2969 $item.owner.firstName 2008-08-07T20:00:38Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#be0174ba-2960-4e4b-ae70-ab3202a88654 I like that impression of the 12th, Adriana. I would say though it may depend on the sign the planets in the 12th are in though maybe...? For instance, Kat's post makes me think of Leo ..now Leo is a self- centered sign, I think that may give the person strength against the 12th House's tendency to involuntary sacrifice / martyrdom / victimhood ..I dont know, at worst perhaps Leo in the 12th would be drained by requests of people constantly wanting to be entertained or encouraged. But then I know a 12th House stellium in Virgo ..oh man ..that person never has peace ..they feel always under-the-thumb, in the service of others, and as if they must always make themselves look inferior to keep from hurting the feelings of others ..but there's a flip-side to that too ..when comfortable, I know of no one who is better at making fun of people in great detail ..an ability to say tremedously accurate but horrendously cruel things to people but actually make them laugh at themselves and enjoy the talent for satire ..they can criticize (virgo) without hurting people's feelings (12th house). Very interesting. I am glad you brought that up about the 12th House, Adriana. Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:18:01 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#be0174ba-2960-4e4b-ae70-ab3202a88654 $item.owner.firstName 2008-08-05T12:18:01Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#db8b89dc-b5c5-4393-811e-f59c916599ab The ones with very much inhabited by different planets 12th House are somehow a bit "victims"like, they put their own selves a bit behind all , and their energies are often sucked by energy vampires. Adriana* Tue, 05 Aug 2008 11:48:56 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#db8b89dc-b5c5-4393-811e-f59c916599ab Never Back 2008-08-05T11:48:56Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#de078aa6-d59c-4f5f-836e-4c5e7497be93 this is an extremely well-written 12th House book http://www.amazon.com/Neptune-House-Pisces-Maurice-Fernandez/dp/1412040280 Tue, 05 Aug 2008 02:57:08 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#de078aa6-d59c-4f5f-836e-4c5e7497be93 $item.owner.firstName 2008-08-05T02:57:08Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#0cf6a478-01c5-46e8-a99a-6db58e706724 Interesting.I have nothing in my 4th house, have jupiter in gemini on the cusp of my 8th,and pluto,mars,venus all in libra in my 12th.Along with scorpio rising.Someone mentioned dark moon Lilith and mines in taurus conjunct my des in taurus.The only planet I have in water is uranus in scorpio conjunct my acendent.I'm more loaded with air planets and they fall in those 'water houses'. The 12th house has always baffled me and is my most full house,I'd always been told that any planets here would be difficult to express or actualize,for me it's something that I've always been deeply aware of and not always comfortable with because it feels so overwhelming at times,an over-sensitivity.Like a tidal wave hitting me.And I literly have to be alone just to readjust or I get downright hostile or feel totally drained.It comes out most in dreams and in sudden gut feelings/reactions that make no sense to me,but keep returning till I acknowledge and deal with it. Tue, 05 Aug 2008 02:28:10 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#0cf6a478-01c5-46e8-a99a-6db58e706724 $item.owner.firstName 2008-08-05T02:28:10Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#d88e846c-8fd0-416c-9a35-b8de95548c76 Thank you very much for your response here in the thread, Kat, I'm flattered this post provoked a response from you and I very much enjoyed your compliments. No, I'm not an astrologer ..I've been studying for almost a year and a half. I love the fact that a relationship astrologer commented here ..synastry is my favorite branch of astrology and the relationship astrologer / marriage counselor / writer Stephen Arroyo's books have probably been my greatest teacher not just of synastry, but astrology as a whole ..I have a fondness of anyone who has managed professional success in such an area, so my praise to you. I see the water houses as having different strengths in the context of empathy. I would say that the strength of the 12th House indeed might be superior receptivity to empathic data, as of course both Cancer and Scorpio are 'guarded' signs by nature, particular and cautious about what they 'let in'. I would say the 4th House is superior in terms of being able to best discern and relate the data it does receive to the individual personally, one who's going to understand emotion 'the way a mother would', whereas Pisces can tend to be diffuse and Scorpio analytical to the point of impersonality. I would say the 8th House is superior in the ability to detect and detail the 'darker' side of the emotional nature of others, whereas such things are apt to offend or alienate both Pisces and Cancer. This emphasis is based on my experience of Cancerian empathy as what I would call an 'organic' empathy ..it doesn't have the lucidity of Pisces' imagination to support it, nor the lucidity of the sense-depriving Scorpion darkness ..it's more 'hand-on-heart, face-to-face', the way an ape might experience empathy. In which case, if we're talking about the "psychic" dimension of empathy, indeed, I would say the 12th House is where to look. Tue, 05 Aug 2008 00:55:34 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#d88e846c-8fd0-416c-9a35-b8de95548c76 $item.owner.firstName 2008-08-05T00:55:34Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#417ae756-98a4-4912-aaf8-50ce01d52966 Hello Toren, et al ~ Toren, I must say, if you're not an astrologer, you've done an excellent job of summarizing the location of empathy in the natal chart. Although I've read many of the posts on this particular forum before, I wasn't previously drawn to comment before now, thanks in great part to Toren's succinct explanation. On the House systems: In my 30+ years experience as an empathic synastric or relationship astrologer, I've tested several different House systems. I find that Koch is very similar to Tropical Placidus, which I use in my own practice. If one compares a chart produced from either of these House systems, the differences are minimal, at least in terms of our purposes. Its accuracy may, in great part, depend on how it is being utilized. Since I also use declinations in my synastries, I find Tropical Placidus suits me sufficiently. But, as Toren also pointed out, this is a personal preference. I'd also like to provide some insight on empathy in the natal chart from a purely personal perspective: I am a Leo with 6 planets in Leo, as well as my Ascendant (yes, I know: talking about myself is a truly LEONINE thing to do, but in this case, I think it is apropos :-)). Leo is a fire sign, as Toren pointed out, and fire signs (Leo, Aries and Sagittarius) are passionate and fiery, which are ways of emoting. Additionally, 5 of my Leo planets -- Sun, Moon (emotions), Venus (love), Mars (passion, aggression) and Jupiter (expansion) are all in the 12th House -- which is ruled by Pisces, a water sign, and thus is also ruled by emotions. To add to that, my Uranus is in Cancer -- another water sign, and ruled by the Moon which, as mentioned, represents emotions. Cancer -- and thus, the Moon -- is also my 12th House ruler, with Leo (passion) and the Sun being its co-ruler. Ultimately, however, while the 4th House is ruled by the Moon (emotions), the 12th House, even moreso than either the 8th or 4th Houses, rules empathy and the empathic nature, which has been agreed upon by most astrologers. But these three Houses, as Toren stated, are all water Houses, and water (once again) equates to emotion, and seems to make it easier to emote. In fact, the more water in one's chart, the more likely it is that the native will emote. (An aside here: the sign ruler for Uranus, my 12th House ruler, is Aquarius, which also rules astrology and is generally believed to be telepathic; this may also contribute to the intensity of my empathic abilities. But that is another, though related, issue.) Bottom line: look mainly to the 12th House to determine an individual's empathic nature, then the 4th, then the 8th. Blessings to all, Kat Starwolf Starwolf Astrology Services http://www.starwolfastrology.com Mon, 04 Aug 2008 07:16:13 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#417ae756-98a4-4912-aaf8-50ce01d52966 Kat 2008-08-04T07:16:13Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#18f46235-60b6-4173-84ec-89881410231f Mazal got it : ) Sun, 03 Aug 2008 15:04:23 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#18f46235-60b6-4173-84ec-89881410231f $item.owner.firstName 2008-08-03T15:04:23Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#6d7a496f-0ac1-4ec2-bd33-eea8f093374c MazaL :) Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:51:22 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#6d7a496f-0ac1-4ec2-bd33-eea8f093374c Never Back 2008-08-03T14:51:22Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#818438f1-a486-438c-a727-57b888e1da2f my lilith is in my 6th ! ..aspecting basically nothing ..nothing at all ..heh i guess i'm not very lilith ..heh : ) Maza sounds very interesting ..with astrology i often keep my eyes open to hints of 'fate' ..especially in chart comparisons and such ..i don't "believe" in anything though, not even astrology ..but anything that can give me a language that some others would also understand by which to describe the things i see/sense on my own that people would not consider even thinking about in a different 'language' is great to me ..i see astrology as an "oracle" ..like in and of itself astrology is nothing, it simply plays/mirrors what one already perceives, clarifies and elaborates on what is already somehow known or perceived /perceivable Maza does sound interesting to me though thank you for the information, Adriana i enjoy talking to you too : ) your mind is a wonderfully formidable one : ) Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:40:26 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#818438f1-a486-438c-a727-57b888e1da2f $item.owner.firstName 2008-08-03T14:40:26Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#3b51c077-49b7-4616-9c13-d5b367eae32f I do not really think the way you think of your self,Toren :) I enjoy talking to you as you show a very high level of intelligence and enlightment,and that catches my a** :D :) hahahaha All points,asteroids and stars ,and not only planets and their mutual aspects make a person the way he is. It is just wonderful as wonders are endless when knowing those all points closer and more intensely in our own or our friends or just those people who are close enough to us to know all about them and to check the astro truth on them properly knowing their charts thouroughfully :) What about Lilith , then it is believed to be a point of instinctive and emotional intelligence, whereby individuals can gain contact with and feel their inner heartfelt truths and soul longings and passions :) Astrologically or mythologically, Lilith personalities, people affected by Lilith, have access to their intuition. And these people are those who have some significant aspects of their personal planets with Lilith in their own charts and also a conjunction with Asc,IC,MC or Desc for sure . Mine is conj IC and trining my Selena (White Moon) ~Lilith personalities are equipped with excellent manipulation and seduction abilities, and if they are smart, they won't use this talent to damage others, but to improve the living conditions of everyone involved. Often these people have diplomatic abilities, psychological understanding and the ability to empathise with other people. Lilith personalities have a sense for the correct word at the right time and know instinctively, what is appropriate in certain communications with certain individuals or a groups and what is not. Mostly they are charismatic people, sending out harmony and balance. from http://solar_a_w_e_f.tripod.com/starsforever/id6.html ~ Toren, I will surely take a deeper look at my chart and tell you what else is happening there with Lilith,Chiron or Junona,or Cupido or Vertex or or or :) as there are so many things that have imact on our personalities through our charts, but anyway we should know one thing that is proved absolutely Astro is nothing in front of Fortune :) It is a Jewish belief (I am Israeli as you know) and it is the truest truth.. I will tell you why I think so :) I had encounters and friends with similiar charts , but one could have an impact on me while the other one with the similiar chart and as if the very intensive had-to-be attraction had not attracted me even a bit ! So not only astro explains all, but Mazal (Mazel), as it is called Fortune and Luck in Hebrew , has the Main impact . Fate and Destiny are responsible for all, Astro is a helping hand ,sometimes for fun only , though a wise fun :) Adriana* Sun, 03 Aug 2008 13:12:47 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#3b51c077-49b7-4616-9c13-d5b367eae32f Never Back 2008-08-03T13:12:47Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#8c656075-ce77-45a5-ae9e-3d545b08d342 lilith is new to me ..i know of it ..you and Adriana both seem to have the insight to mention it here ..very cool and chiron ..'the wounded healer' yes ..i hadn't thought of chiron at all 'the wounded healer' connotation would be vast / strong empathic ability ..far more so than other indicators in some ways ..great point, bringing chiron in there Sun on IC (that's the 4th House cusp, for the sake of those here to whom it's unfamiliar)..yeah, i think that would be especially indicative of an empathic dimension to person's nature Sun, 03 Aug 2008 12:43:27 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#8c656075-ce77-45a5-ae9e-3d545b08d342 $item.owner.firstName 2008-08-03T12:43:27Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#179ce38b-d809-4452-b046-654a9becdd9f sometimes both, but much more empathic Sun, 03 Aug 2008 12:34:00 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#179ce38b-d809-4452-b046-654a9becdd9f $item.owner.firstName 2008-08-03T12:34:00Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#bcbf9374-b802-4f02-b697-97055ec7ede5 Adriana, I often suspect about myself, and have suspected about you before as well, if our Leo Ascendant makes me appear un-empathetic / un-emotional to others, since the Ascendant is likely to be the priority in how one presents oneself in a public forum, online or off perhaps. I notice you and I are both very dignified in how we present ourselves in words ..well, ok, you are more dignified than I am, as I can tend to be an ass, heh : ) Have you ever noticed anything like that about your Ascendant though ..like highly / deeply emotional people mistaking you as being insensitive / unemotional? (for me it could be my venus sag in the 5th and aquarius dsc though too) And, yes, it will be interesting to see what you find in your chart. Toren Sun, 03 Aug 2008 12:33:12 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#bcbf9374-b802-4f02-b697-97055ec7ede5 $item.owner.firstName 2008-08-03T12:33:12Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#cb1c62a3-d76f-40ac-a96d-0e1641ef123c and what you feel ,are you empathic or/and telepathic? :) *Toren , a great topic by the way :) "thumbs up" Sun, 03 Aug 2008 12:31:14 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#cb1c62a3-d76f-40ac-a96d-0e1641ef123c Never Back 2008-08-03T12:31:14Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#68b9f2a2-e004-45df-a3b8-9c909d81b436 mine are: Sun on IC Sun and IC conj true black moon lilith Pluto in the 8th Moon conj Neptune Chiron conj Mercury Sun, 03 Aug 2008 12:17:07 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#68b9f2a2-e004-45df-a3b8-9c909d81b436 $item.owner.firstName 2008-08-03T12:17:07Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#3bb7c5a2-1c31-4b3d-a3ff-c2503502064a A very interesting post,Toren :) Cheers to you !! I have Lilith on my forth house cusp , that is what comes to my mind when reminding to my self my own chart :) I will look into my chart later if you permit as have to do some other things on net right now . I can say about my self that I am rather empathic and telepathic both :) And it is really so .. I love people. Adriana* Will return to this post again Sun, 03 Aug 2008 11:43:29 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#3bb7c5a2-1c31-4b3d-a3ff-c2503502064a Never Back 2008-08-03T11:43:29Z http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#1f4177be-4a05-42df-ab7f-4a74af0cf0fe I considered posting this a few days but, eh. Then I saw someone wondering how their astrology could equate to empathic qualities if it seemed their Sun sign was not in a sign known to be particularly emotional. I want to share some basics of advanced astrology with the tribe and I'd love to see feedback / input here from anybody who finds correlations in their natal chart. For anyone who has never seen an accurate natal chart for their self, astro.com is a site that will produce one for you for free and, also, if you use their "Extended Chart Selection" option, will let you set the 'House System' of your chart to the 'Koch' house system, which, in my own personal opinion, the most detailed of astrological counselors and writers find most accurate (especially if one is interested in 'synastry', which is compatibility or relationship astrology). If you could note in your post whether or not you are using the Koch house system, I will very much appreciate it as educational to me. You do need to know your exact birth time, hour and minute, for anything involving the astrological Houses to be reliable. That said ..here are some things to look for in your natal chart: Several reputable astrologers would agree that one's Rising Sign (or Ascendant) and the aspects it makes to planets and points in one's chart establishes as much as 15% of the accurate astrological portrait of an individual, far more than any point or planet in the chart including the Sun or Moon. The Rising Sign is said to be something of a 'surface quality', but, viewed in the context of the whole of the chart, it is far more and has a strong bearing on the directions one will tend to take in life ..perhaps not the 'where they go' so much as the 'how they get there' ..a facet of their strength as an individual in the face of the offerings or obstacles the world they encounter may present ..one could perhaps say the Ascendant is like one's ambassador handling the diplomatic matters of one's negotiations with the outside world. I don't, however, for instance, consider my own Leo Rising nor it's strong aspects to my Sun, Mars, and Jupiter to be an empathetic quality in my chart ..so I say no particular astrological indication of empathic abilities for me there. However, the planet ruling the Ascendant is an important astrological feature in most people's charts ..Leo is ruled by the Sun, for instance ..so one looks to the Sun and the sign and house it is in ..my Sun is in Scorpio ..being a water sign and a probing/investigative one at that, it could be a possible astrological indicator of empathy, but let's look more ..that Sun is in the 4th House ..the 4th House in naturally ruled by the sign of Cancer, another water sign and the 4th is said to be symbolic of the root of the emotional nature, another possible astrological indicator of empathy. So, we've cast the chart, looked at the Ascendant, looked at it's ruling planet by both sign and House ..next I would say look at the Sun ..in my chart we've already done that ..so, next, I would move on to the Moon, not only would it normally be the next planet I would look at when studying a person's chart, the Moon is also, like the 4th House, indicative of the root of the emotional nature (in fact, the Moon rules the 4th House and the sign of Cancer, they are all three, in a sense, analogous of one another). My Moon is in Scorpio ..another water/emotional sign (fire signs are actually emotional signs too ..but with fire signs we are talking about active / extroverted / 'self-centered' emotionality ..it tends to interact and energize people rather than 'read' and be receptive to people) ..and that Scorpio Moon, along with the Sun, is in the 4th House also, again. If we're talking empathy and avoiding looking at aspects to keep this post simple and within the bounds of those who have never really studied astrology ..I would next look at Venus in terms of planets ..Mercury is a mental planet, we will want to look there, but I say let's look at Venus first as Venus has something to tell us about one's general tendencies of social relatedness and regard for others ..my own Venus is Sagittarius in the 5th House ..Sagittarius is fire, the 5th House (naturally ruled by Leo and the Sun) is fire ..no indications of empathy there per se Ok, so let's look at Mercury ..Mercury has something to tell us of how a person perceives and processes things mentally ..my own is in Scropio, water, in the 4th house, water I'm going to leave out Mars ..if you want an idea of how empathetic you are when it comes to conflict or to how you are as a sexual partner or to how you pursue your goals and other desires in life, look to Mars. Last thing I'm going to add ..look at the Houses themselves ..look at the 4th House ..look at the 8th House ..look at the 12th House ..these three Houses are the water Houses and have also traditionally been called by some sources 'the psychic houses' (but, if we're talking 'psychic' and of mental notions such as 'telepathy', we're talking air signs and that's a whole other thing) ..do you have planets in the 4th, 8th, or 12th Houses? (planets other than Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto in those Houses will tend to be more significant, unless one of those three rules your Ascendant) ..if you do, also look at the cusp, the line where that House begins and look at what sign is on that cusp ..is it a water sign? So, while having to leave some things out, I do think, using the Koch house system, that this view of a chart can theoretically give a view of theoretical empathic potential ..let's see what anyone here who has the time and curiosity can find in their own chart ? : ) As an example, in my own, I say we found these possible indications: Sun ruling the Ascendant in Scorpio in the 4th House Moon in Scorpio in the 4th House Mercury in Scorpio in the 4th House Saturn in Cancer in the 12th House What's in your's? Sun, 03 Aug 2008 09:22:14 GMT http://empaths.tribe.net/thread/ba02a697-afd4-4a9f-b7d4-8e3520886205#1f4177be-4a05-42df-ab7f-4a74af0cf0fe $item.owner.firstName 2008-08-03T09:22:14Z