Advanced Astrology & Empaths

topic posted Sun, August 3, 2008 - 2:22 AM by  Unsubscribed
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I considered posting this a few days but, eh.
Then I saw someone wondering how their
astrology could equate to empathic qualities
if it seemed their Sun sign was not in a sign
known to be particularly emotional.

I want to share some basics of advanced
astrology with the tribe and I'd love to see
feedback / input here from anybody who
finds correlations in their natal chart.

For anyone who has never seen an accurate
natal chart for their self, astro.com is a site
that will produce one for you for free and,
also, if you use their "Extended Chart Selection"
option, will let you set the 'House System' of
your chart to the 'Koch' house system, which,
in my own personal opinion, the most detailed
of astrological counselors and writers find
most accurate (especially if one is interested
in 'synastry', which is compatibility or relationship
astrology). If you could note in your post whether
or not you are using the Koch house system, I
will very much appreciate it as educational to me.

You do need to know your exact birth time, hour and
minute, for anything involving the astrological Houses
to be reliable.

That said ..here are some things to look for in your
natal chart:

Several reputable astrologers would agree that one's
Rising Sign (or Ascendant) and the aspects it makes
to planets and points in one's chart establishes as
much as 15% of the accurate astrological portrait of
an individual, far more than any point or planet in the
chart including the Sun or Moon. The Rising Sign is
said to be something of a 'surface quality', but, viewed
in the context of the whole of the chart, it is far more
and has a strong bearing on the directions one will
tend to take in life ..perhaps not the 'where they go' so
much as the 'how they get there' ..a facet of their strength
as an individual in the face of the offerings or obstacles
the world they encounter may present ..one could
perhaps say the Ascendant is like one's ambassador
handling the diplomatic matters of one's negotiations
with the outside world.

I don't, however, for instance, consider my own Leo Rising
nor it's strong aspects to my Sun, Mars, and Jupiter to be
an empathetic quality in my chart ..so I say no particular
astrological indication of empathic abilities for me there.

However, the planet ruling the Ascendant is an important
astrological feature in most people's charts ..Leo is ruled
by the Sun, for instance ..so one looks to the Sun and the
sign and house it is in ..my Sun is in Scorpio ..being a
water sign and a probing/investigative one at that, it
could be a possible astrological indicator of empathy,
but let's look more ..that Sun is in the 4th House ..the
4th House in naturally ruled by the sign of Cancer,
another water sign and the 4th is said to be symbolic
of the root of the emotional nature, another possible
astrological indicator of empathy.

So, we've cast the chart, looked at the Ascendant, looked
at it's ruling planet by both sign and House ..next I would
say look at the Sun ..in my chart we've already done that
..so, next, I would move on to the Moon, not only would it
normally be the next planet I would look at when studying
a person's chart, the Moon is also, like the 4th House,
indicative of the root of the emotional nature (in fact, the
Moon rules the 4th House and the sign of Cancer, they
are all three, in a sense, analogous of one another).

My Moon is in Scorpio ..another water/emotional sign
(fire signs are actually emotional signs too ..but with
fire signs we are talking about active / extroverted /
'self-centered' emotionality ..it tends to interact and
energize people rather than 'read' and be receptive to
people) ..and that Scorpio Moon, along with the Sun,
is in the 4th House also, again.

If we're talking empathy and avoiding looking at aspects
to keep this post simple and within the bounds of those
who have never really studied astrology ..I would next look
at Venus in terms of planets ..Mercury is a mental planet,
we will want to look there, but I say let's look at Venus first
as Venus has something to tell us about one's general
tendencies of social relatedness and regard for others
..my own Venus is Sagittarius in the 5th House ..Sagittarius
is fire, the 5th House (naturally ruled by Leo and the Sun)
is fire ..no indications of empathy there per se

Ok, so let's look at Mercury ..Mercury has something to tell
us of how a person perceives and processes things mentally
..my own is in Scropio, water, in the 4th house, water

I'm going to leave out Mars ..if you want an idea of how
empathetic you are when it comes to conflict or to how
you are as a sexual partner or to how you pursue your
goals and other desires in life, look to Mars.

Last thing I'm going to add ..look at the Houses themselves
..look at the 4th House ..look at the 8th House ..look at the
12th House ..these three Houses are the water Houses
and have also traditionally been called by some sources
'the psychic houses' (but, if we're talking 'psychic' and of
mental notions such as 'telepathy', we're talking air signs
and that's a whole other thing) ..do you have planets in
the 4th, 8th, or 12th Houses? (planets other than Uranus,
Neptune, and Pluto in those Houses will tend to be more
significant, unless one of those three rules your Ascendant)
..if you do, also look at the cusp, the line where that House
begins and look at what sign is on that cusp ..is it a water sign?

So, while having to leave some things out, I do think, using
the Koch house system, that this view of a chart can
theoretically give a view of theoretical empathic potential
..let's see what anyone here who has the time and curiosity
can find in their own chart ? : )

As an example, in my own, I say we found these possible
indications:

Sun ruling the Ascendant in Scorpio in the 4th House
Moon in Scorpio in the 4th House
Mercury in Scorpio in the 4th House
Saturn in Cancer in the 12th House

What's in your's?




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  • Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

    Sun, August 3, 2008 - 4:43 AM
    A very interesting post,Toren :)


    Cheers to you !!


    I have Lilith on my forth house cusp ,
    that is what comes to my mind when reminding to my self my own chart :)
    I will look into my chart later if you permit as have to do some other things on net right now .


    I can say about my self that I am rather empathic and telepathic both :)
    And it is really so ..
    I love people.


    Adriana*
    Will return to this post again
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

      Sun, August 3, 2008 - 5:17 AM
      mine are: Sun on IC
      Sun and IC conj true black moon lilith
      Pluto in the 8th
      Moon conj Neptune
      Chiron conj Mercury
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

        Sun, August 3, 2008 - 5:43 AM

        lilith is new to me ..i know of it
        ..you and Adriana both seem to
        have the insight to mention it here
        ..very cool

        and chiron ..'the wounded healer'
        yes ..i hadn't thought of chiron at all
        'the wounded healer' connotation
        would be vast / strong empathic
        ability ..far more so than other
        indicators in some ways ..great
        point, bringing chiron in there

        Sun on IC (that's the 4th House cusp,
        for the sake of those here to whom it's
        unfamiliar)..yeah, i think that would
        be especially indicative of an
        empathic dimension to person's
        nature
        • Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

          Sun, August 3, 2008 - 6:12 AM
          I do not really think the way you think of your self,Toren :)

          I enjoy talking to you
          as you show a very high level of intelligence and
          enlightment,and that catches my a** :D :) hahahaha



          All points,asteroids and stars ,and not only planets and their mutual aspects make a person the way he is.
          It is just wonderful as wonders are endless when knowing those all points closer
          and more intensely in our own or our friends or just those people who are close enough to us to know all about them and to check the astro truth on them properly knowing their charts thouroughfully :)


          What about Lilith ,
          then it is believed to be a point of instinctive and emotional intelligence, whereby individuals can gain contact with and feel their inner heartfelt truths and soul longings and passions :)


          Astrologically or mythologically, Lilith personalities, people affected by Lilith, have access to their intuition.

          And these people are those who have some significant aspects of their personal planets with Lilith in their own charts
          and also a conjunction with Asc,IC,MC or Desc for sure .

          Mine is conj IC and trining my Selena (White Moon)


          ~Lilith personalities are equipped with excellent manipulation and seduction abilities, and if they are smart, they won't use this talent to damage others, but to improve the living conditions of everyone involved. Often these people have diplomatic abilities, psychological understanding and the ability to empathise with other people. Lilith personalities have a sense for the correct word at the right time and know instinctively, what is appropriate in certain communications with certain individuals or a groups and what is not. Mostly they are charismatic people, sending out harmony and balance.

          from http://solar_a_w_e_f.tripod.com/starsforever/id6.html ~


          Toren,
          I will surely take a deeper look at my chart
          and tell you what else is happening there with Lilith,Chiron or Junona,or Cupido or Vertex or or or :)
          as there are so many things that have imact on our personalities through our charts,
          but anyway
          we should know one thing
          that is proved absolutely


          Astro is nothing in front of Fortune :)
          It is a Jewish belief (I am Israeli as you know)
          and it is the truest truth..

          I will tell you why I think so :)



          I had encounters and friends with similiar charts ,
          but one could have an impact on me while the other one with the similiar chart
          and as if the very intensive had-to-be attraction had not attracted me even a bit !

          So not only astro explains all,
          but Mazal (Mazel), as it is called Fortune and Luck in Hebrew ,
          has the Main impact . Fate and Destiny are responsible for all,
          Astro is a helping hand ,sometimes for fun only ,
          though a wise fun :)


          Adriana*

          • Unsu...
             

            Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

            Sun, August 3, 2008 - 7:40 AM

            my lilith is in my 6th ! ..aspecting basically nothing ..nothing at all ..heh

            i guess i'm not very lilith ..heh : )

            Maza sounds very interesting ..with astrology i often keep my eyes
            open to hints of 'fate' ..especially in chart comparisons and such
            ..i don't "believe" in anything though, not even astrology ..but anything
            that can give me a language that some others would also understand
            by which to describe the things i see/sense on my own that people
            would not consider even thinking about in a different 'language' is
            great to me ..i see astrology as an "oracle" ..like in and of itself
            astrology is nothing, it simply plays/mirrors what one already
            perceives, clarifies and elaborates on what is already somehow
            known or perceived /perceivable

            Maza does sound interesting to me though

            thank you for the information, Adriana

            i enjoy talking to you too : )
            your mind is a wonderfully formidable one : )
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

      Sun, August 3, 2008 - 5:33 AM

      Adriana, I often suspect about myself, and
      have suspected about you before as well,
      if our Leo Ascendant makes me appear
      un-empathetic / un-emotional to others,
      since the Ascendant is likely to be the
      priority in how one presents oneself in a
      public forum, online or off perhaps.

      I notice you and I are both very dignified
      in how we present ourselves in words
      ..well, ok, you are more dignified than I am,
      as I can tend to be an ass, heh : )

      Have you ever noticed anything like that
      about your Ascendant though ..like highly /
      deeply emotional people mistaking you
      as being insensitive / unemotional?

      (for me it could be my venus sag in the
      5th and aquarius dsc though too)

      And, yes, it will be interesting to see what
      you find in your chart.

      Toren
  • Kat
    Kat
    offline 5

    Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

    Mon, August 4, 2008 - 12:16 AM
    Hello Toren, et al ~

    Toren, I must say, if you're not an astrologer, you've done an excellent job of summarizing the location of empathy in the natal chart.

    Although I've read many of the posts on this particular forum before, I wasn't previously drawn to comment before now, thanks in great part to Toren's succinct explanation.

    On the House systems: In my 30+ years experience as an empathic synastric or relationship astrologer, I've tested several different House systems. I find that Koch is very similar to Tropical Placidus, which I use in my own practice. If one compares a chart produced from either of these House systems, the differences are minimal, at least in terms of our purposes. Its accuracy may, in great part, depend on how it is being utilized. Since I also use declinations in my synastries, I find Tropical Placidus suits me sufficiently. But, as Toren also pointed out, this is a personal preference.

    I'd also like to provide some insight on empathy in the natal chart from a purely personal perspective:

    I am a Leo with 6 planets in Leo, as well as my Ascendant (yes, I know: talking about myself is a truly LEONINE thing to do, but in this case, I think it is apropos :-)). Leo is a fire sign, as Toren pointed out, and fire signs (Leo, Aries and Sagittarius) are passionate and fiery, which are ways of emoting. Additionally, 5 of my Leo planets -- Sun, Moon (emotions), Venus (love), Mars (passion, aggression) and Jupiter (expansion) are all in the 12th House -- which is ruled by Pisces, a water sign, and thus is also ruled by emotions. To add to that, my Uranus is in Cancer -- another water sign, and ruled by the Moon which, as mentioned, represents emotions. Cancer -- and thus, the Moon -- is also my 12th House ruler, with Leo (passion) and the Sun being its co-ruler.

    Ultimately, however, while the 4th House is ruled by the Moon (emotions), the 12th House, even moreso than either the 8th or 4th Houses, rules empathy and the empathic nature, which has been agreed upon by most astrologers. But these three Houses, as Toren stated, are all water Houses, and water (once again) equates to emotion, and seems to make it easier to emote. In fact, the more water in one's chart, the more likely it is that the native will emote.

    (An aside here: the sign ruler for Uranus, my 12th House ruler, is Aquarius, which also rules astrology and is generally believed to be telepathic; this may also contribute to the intensity of my empathic abilities. But that is another, though related, issue.)

    Bottom line: look mainly to the 12th House to determine an individual's empathic nature, then the 4th, then the 8th.

    Blessings to all,

    Kat Starwolf
    Starwolf Astrology Services
    www.starwolfastrology.com

    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

      Mon, August 4, 2008 - 5:55 PM

      Thank you very much for your response here in the
      thread, Kat, I'm flattered this post provoked a
      response from you and I very much enjoyed your
      compliments. No, I'm not an astrologer ..I've been
      studying for almost a year and a half. I love the fact
      that a relationship astrologer commented here
      ..synastry is my favorite branch of astrology and
      the relationship astrologer / marriage counselor /
      writer Stephen Arroyo's books have probably been my
      greatest teacher not just of synastry, but astrology
      as a whole ..I have a fondness of anyone who has
      managed professional success in such an area,
      so my praise to you.

      I see the water houses as having different strengths in
      the context of empathy. I would say that the strength of
      the 12th House indeed might be superior receptivity to
      empathic data, as of course both Cancer and Scorpio
      are 'guarded' signs by nature, particular and cautious
      about what they 'let in'. I would say the 4th House is
      superior in terms of being able to best discern and
      relate the data it does receive to the individual personally,
      one who's going to understand emotion 'the way a mother
      would', whereas Pisces can tend to be diffuse and
      Scorpio analytical to the point of impersonality. I would
      say the 8th House is superior in the ability to detect and
      detail the 'darker' side of the emotional nature of others,
      whereas such things are apt to offend or alienate both
      Pisces and Cancer.

      This emphasis is based on my experience of Cancerian
      empathy as what I would call an 'organic' empathy ..it
      doesn't have the lucidity of Pisces' imagination to support
      it, nor the lucidity of the sense-depriving Scorpion
      darkness ..it's more 'hand-on-heart, face-to-face', the
      way an ape might experience empathy. In which case, if
      we're talking about the "psychic" dimension of empathy,
      indeed, I would say the 12th House is where to look.
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

    Mon, August 4, 2008 - 7:28 PM
    Interesting.I have nothing in my 4th house, have jupiter in gemini on the cusp of my 8th,and pluto,mars,venus all in libra in my 12th.Along with scorpio rising.Someone mentioned dark moon Lilith and mines in taurus conjunct my des in taurus.The only planet I have in water is uranus in scorpio conjunct my acendent.I'm more loaded with air planets and they fall in those 'water houses'. The 12th house has always baffled me and is my most full house,I'd always been told that any planets here would be difficult to express or actualize,for me it's something that I've always been deeply aware of and not always comfortable with because it feels so overwhelming at times,an over-sensitivity.Like a tidal wave hitting me.And I literly have to be alone just to readjust or I get downright hostile or feel totally drained.It comes out most in dreams and in sudden gut feelings/reactions that make no sense to me,but keep returning till I acknowledge and deal with it.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

      Mon, August 4, 2008 - 7:57 PM

      this is an extremely well-written 12th House book

      www.amazon.com/Neptune-Ho.../1412040280
      • Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

        Tue, August 5, 2008 - 4:48 AM
        The ones with very much inhabited by different planets 12th House are somehow
        a bit "victims"like,
        they put their own selves a bit behind all ,
        and their energies are often sucked by energy vampires.


        Adriana*
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

          Tue, August 5, 2008 - 5:18 AM

          I like that impression of the 12th, Adriana.
          I would say though it may depend on the
          sign the planets in the 12th are in though
          maybe...? For instance, Kat's post makes
          me think of Leo ..now Leo is a self-
          centered sign, I think that may give the
          person strength against the 12th House's
          tendency to involuntary sacrifice / martyrdom
          / victimhood ..I dont know, at worst perhaps
          Leo in the 12th would be drained by
          requests of people constantly wanting to
          be entertained or encouraged. But then
          I know a 12th House stellium in Virgo
          ..oh man ..that person never has peace
          ..they feel always under-the-thumb, in
          the service of others, and as if they must
          always make themselves look inferior
          to keep from hurting the feelings of
          others ..but there's a flip-side to that too
          ..when comfortable, I know of no one
          who is better at making fun of people
          in great detail ..an ability to say tremedously
          accurate but horrendously cruel things to
          people but actually make them laugh
          at themselves and enjoy the talent for
          satire ..they can criticize (virgo) without
          hurting people's feelings (12th house).
          Very interesting.

          I am glad you brought that up about the
          12th House, Adriana.
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

            Thu, August 7, 2008 - 1:00 PM
            Good topic, as I love astrology and seeing how it all relates. I also like what everyone has shared. So far, interseting.
            I agree with water house/angles planets and aspects. I'll be brief. Looking forward to see what others share.

            My natal is cancer rising with moon in 4th(home). My 4th with Virgo on IC/4th is a stellium (6planets Virgo and Libra).
            • Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

              Tue, August 26, 2008 - 12:46 PM
              Most definitely my predominant Moon in Pisces. It is a dark Moon and in the Tenth House and I have always felt as old as dirt....not the oldest soul but old in experience.
              I posted that in the Pisces Moon tribe and some agreed with the "description".

              I am end of Gemini rising and my Mercury also is in Pîsces.

              I have a perfect trine between Uranus and the Moon. I sit down and get tales for science fiction stories that I should be writing if I were any smart.

              I am also extremely psychic.

              There is also a Saturn-Neptune conjunction, both retrograde and considered karmic, something about having had great talents according to a constellation.

              Maybe there were abuse of power in my soul background but my personal feeling is that I allowed myself to be used by grey eminences.

              I got the gift of an Aries Sun for getting me out of the mire.

              I remember many lives as a male priest for some sky God and then very strange occurrences such as having been part vegetal and human in a description that resembles Atlantis, which could be a projection from our future into our past (!) and other things that are now emerging.

              I also remember taking on this life as a dare and challenge and seeing all the elements in play before my conception.

              I have Jupiter in the Twelfth House, many theologians and ecclesiasts in my background. It also means elsewhere that you have an angel perched on your shoulder and manage to escape the worst as the last minute.
              This is true of my life. I was abused to an inch of my life, physically but especially mentally in a way that resembled black magic indoctrination by people who were naturally gifted in this and according to most psychology, books should be raving mad...
              Well, maybe I am but at least my life has meaning but I am still unravelling the damage.

              I do not remember many lives as a female. Maybe it is the witch archetype that is coming into play and I have always been called that.
              But then this world really love women, especially ones that have power no matter how soft the outwardly appearance, even in this day and age.
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

                Tue, August 26, 2008 - 1:08 PM

                interesting.

                jeffery wolf green's book 'Pluto Volume 2'
                is very in-depth reincarnation/evolutionary
                astrology, by far the best i have ever seen

                one thing he does say, you mention gender
                and previous lives ..he says capricorn/cancer
                on the nodal axis and/or the nodes being in
                the 4th and 10th houses can be, but aren't
                necessarily, indicators of a soul that very
                recently changed gender in incarnations,
                within the past three lifetimes usually.
                • Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

                  Tue, August 26, 2008 - 4:51 PM
                  I have both Jeffery Wolf Green's books on Pluto. These are not light breezy reading. These are usually harsh lives that he describes. I suspect that he did not pick Pluto at random. He is a smart author by the way.

                  I sort of remember a life before in a male body, in the States during depression time around the Mississippi area but it could be a parallel life. It did not leave a major impact.
                  Strangely, it is the personnality that I felt as i was viewing the scene before being born. It felt male.

                  I think that I usually lead lives in a male body but it could be that I have a harder time being a woman.
                  It is the lack of power and respect that women usually garner through history. I am very aware of the social construct and have a hard time playing conventional female.
                  I have also been killed in a woman's body at least once by the inquisition or something happened in the lineage that created a trauma. I was told that I had happy lives as women in an agrarian society a long time ago growing plants but I do not remember any herbal knowledge. It just does not come up.
                  I am also having a lot of trouble keeping poachers off my land and having crazy guys acting as if they are going to hit me with vehicles in intimidation so it is perhaps an issue that I am working on right now though it is me mixed with something else.
                  I am fending my way in a sea of men.

                  There are no sure way to determine the past sex of an entity. I am told that sometimes reincarnating individuals can be homosexuals but it is not my case at all. I am totally straight.
                  I was not brutal to women nor did I look down at them any more than the rest of society perhaps, more protective.

                  I do not mind being a woman per se. What I dislike is the role that this society gives women, like being in the loser’s seat and since your beliefs create your reality, I could also be creating this for myself.
                  If I am coming back here, I would like to do is as a woman and bear children for example. I do not remember anything. I am very nurturing.
                  I would like to do it if it is not dangerous.

                  One can switch sex anytime or nationalities, cultures.
                  Some of your future lives could also be in the past.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     

                    Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

                    Fri, August 29, 2008 - 1:25 AM

                    Green's books indeed are not 'breezy reading'
                    ..i will be understanding new things in them
                    still at the end of my life, I'm sure ..harsh lives,
                    yes, but i think most of the world's population
                    as a whole lives what could be considered
                    a 'harsh life' perhaps, and certainly more so
                    the case the further back in time one were
                    to go ..Green seems to take a very Plutonic
                    approach to writing of Pluto, it would seem,
                    heh ..focusing on the pain and 'darkness'
                    and any possible transformations that
                    come of that depth, a depth people rarely
                    look to in themselves or others on a day to
                    day basis, entire lives lived, where possible,
                    where such depths / dimensions of the self
                    are seen if circumstance and happenstance
                    forces one to take a look ..so, really, i don't
                    think he's writing about anything more harsh
                    than most of that which is common human
                    experience, simply repressed or at least
                    denied from consciousness ..it could be
                    projection, but honestly i sense such 'dark'
                    in everybody ..even children have it, but, if
                    fortunate enough in circumstance, are so
                    constantly in authentic motion on every
                    level of the being that the Plutonic elements
                    in their being and body don't 'coagulate'
                    the way that of older peoples' with deepening
                    conditionings do ..children maybe only begin
                    to force Pluto away when they, very painfully,
                    realize there are no adults who are going
                    to want enough to do with Pluto to help the
                    child through the Plutonic experience ..Pluto
                    becomes incredibly stigmatized ..and so
                    Scorpio loves taboos

                    women have incredible powers as women
                    if they choose to and are aware enough to
                    use them ..the world even as it is is full of
                    advantages that only women have, things the
                    classically male mind/consciousness
                    perhaps can't help but mostly overlook, be
                    unaware of, unable to interfere with or
                    oppress (except in the grossest of senses)
                    ..so women have long been called 'manipulative
                    witches' by weak or controlling men who
                    would insist the workings of a woman's
                    mind and consciousness be as evident to
                    him as his own (when in fact that is not even
                    naturally possible) rather than appreciate and
                    have with it the complex relationships and
                    communications where the autonomy of each
                    is respected and enriching ..women, themselves
                    as women, do indeed have power, irregardless
                    of the world around them

                    the advantage / power men seem to have in this
                    world is not so great ..for every man you see
                    rising to some position in the world that seems
                    easy and open to him in a way it may not be to
                    a woman or an other of some sort, there is a
                    more 'powerful' man watching and wanting it to
                    be 'easy' for that man for his own completely
                    self-centered intention ..if the more 'powerful' do
                    not agree, nothing will be 'easy' or an 'advantage'
                    for that man ..perhaps it's true, the more 'powerful'
                    are likely to favor a male, but to what? walking into
                    a scripted pawn-like role in someone else's
                    impersonal intentions? ..there is no richness, no
                    'treasure' in that, no true anyway ..life will still be as
                    it is when one walks into such an arrangement
                    and the true 'treasure' of life would still have to be
                    found elsewhere, even if from the window of a
                    nicer car ..we are all equal ..and who wants to
                    play games or anything more worthwhile than
                    games with people who play by rules counter to
                    the true joy that can be had in human life?
                    ..'the men' may indeed have 'the power' by some
                    appearances ..'but are these happy, truly joyful
                    men?', i have always asked myself ..the saddest
                    thing perhaps though is that even people outside
                    of such conglomerations of distraction are just as
                    unlikely to do what it takes to claim the potentials
                    of joy, happiness, truth ..the field much larger and
                    more essential than the fields of business, fame,
                    fortune, etc. is as wide open to anyone ..all are
                    perhaps guilty of doing too little about it, yes?

                    women are awesome creatures ..it is something
                    every woman should know in life as soon as possible


                    past-lives ..i don't believe one way or the other as to
                    whether there is such a thing ..two things i am
                    comfortable enough to talk about though is once i
                    had some kind of..something..it wasn't a dream, it
                    wasn't a day-dream, it wasn't chemically induced,
                    it wasn't mere imagination, certainly not any
                    experience of 'imagination' i've ever otherwise
                    encountered ..it was simply very much apart from
                    any sort of mental experience i had before or since
                    ..for a few moments i saw a man in a field from a
                    time obviously not of this or the previous centruy
                    (whether from his clothing, manner, or even the
                    quality of the sky and such), the man was chopping
                    wood for a few moments and then fell over dead of
                    a heart-attack ..unusual as he looked young for a
                    heart-attack ..something in the death told me the
                    story though ..this man was so unintelligent he was
                    almost a mute, otherwise seemingly normal, there
                    may have been a hereditary contribution to the
                    circumstance but it was somehow clear that his
                    heart was both physically and metaphorically full
                    of pain, the pain of having been an almost perfectly
                    selfless man, the sort who did anything for anyone
                    as though he hadn't really the slightest concept of
                    what else to do with himself, the tiny barely at all
                    developed 'town' he had lived in was only smarter
                    enough than himself to have taken advantage of
                    his disposition completely ..he died from the pain
                    of a heart never truly nourished in return, regardless
                    that he had never thought to want anything in return

                    and in the next moment i saw as if the exact opposite
                    of that man, seeming somehow to be from a time as
                    much as a century in difference, beneath a tree, yet
                    another field, alone, this man for some reason was
                    dressed in all black, nicely, were it not for how
                    completely unkempt and self-neglected he was, the
                    black suit-like clothing i did not understand, for if he
                    had been minister, for instance, which would be
                    fitting of appearance, this was a man who had fallen
                    unthinkably 'far from grace' ..again i was only seeing
                    the last moments of a life and a death that told me
                    everything ..he was intoxicated, chronically so, to the
                    point of contributing to what was, once again, a heart
                    attack as cause of death ..but of the completely
                    opposite sort 'metaphysically' speaking ..this was a
                    man who's heart had for some time not given to nor
                    even been 'open' to others, 'a black heart', as black
                    as the clothing he wore, a heart full of the pain that
                    is at the basis of what is hatred, the kind of pain,
                    untended, that becomes hatred, somehow it was
                    evident this man had every conceivable form of
                    hatred against every human being he had ever
                    known or could imagine ..and of this hatred, this
                    pain, far more so than from the alcohol, he died

                    interesting things
              • Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

                Wed, September 10, 2008 - 1:24 AM
                salut eniad


                i can see why i was attracted to your page

                there are so many similarities in our makeups priests atlantis taken over the whole thingummy


                I remember many lives as a male priest for some sky God and then very strange occurrences such as having been part vegetal and human in a description that resembles Atlantis, which could be a projection from our future into our past (!) and other things that are now emerging. THIS COULD BE ME TALKING


                c'est marrant


                spirirual law really works


                like attracts like


                i have memories of lives where dolphins and man mingle in a sort of etheric atlantean sea sort of under the water but again not really
                this reminded me of the vegetal thing


                i lke the idea of an incarnation as a dare sounds a little cheeky


                ON A MORE SERIOUS NOTE I THINK MANY OF us are here to shed the priest the inner priest who always wanted to preach night and day


                and in a way the challenge for those of that makeup is to NOT


                to just BE


                not make a fuss and flow with life



                or am i just talking to myself



                TOREN this is a brilliant post ta

                shan peace
  • Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

    Thu, August 28, 2008 - 8:46 PM
    I Have a Leo Sun conjunct Pluto in the 12th house along with a Virgo Jupiter in the 12th and a Leo Uranus in the 11th house. My ascendent and Mercury are both Virgo. Saturn in Scopio retrograde, and Mars in Pisces retrograde with both moving toward air. My moon and Chiron are in Aquarius and my Venus is in Cancer. Neptune is in Libra. South Node and MC in Gemini, North Node in Sagittarius.

    The 12th house is becoming my favorite place. My incubation here has been quite extended, but I feel I am now beginning grow up through the earth at last. In this remarkable time, many things are changing for the better. One thing that is a little difficult is "taking in" the maladies of others, and even of electronics, so that I am sychronized to their relative health or functioning. This is like a kind of physical, unconscious clairvoyance, and it can be very inconvenient, especially when it involves reactions such as the pulse rate dropping to 49. But I think I am still in a transitional phase, and this is like growing pains. My aura probably needs a some caulking and a new coat of paint as well.

    My interactions with people are changing, too. I think I am seeing people in something of a cubist way. Cubism was about capturing motion in a static field, which is how it feels sometimes to me when I am dealing with some people. There is a stop-action quality happening then to me. Again, I think this is a transitional effect. This is also a time when my established relationships are undergoing redefinition. I sleep a lot, but you tend to do that when you are growing.

    It would probably behoove me to look at a progressed chart and see what transits are happening as well....
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

      Fri, August 29, 2008 - 1:46 AM

      interesting

      it seems the combination of virgo and aquarius
      are very manifest in the phenomena you describe
      involving electronics

      the 'cubist way' of seeing people ..? ..i think i can
      relate to something like that ..i began to stop
      seeing people as 'static' forms a long time ago
      ..it just got too silly to continue to try to think the
      overly-personified conceptualization of 'person'
      can actually serve as an adequate symbol of
      a human being and the experiencing of a human
      being ..people are not our thoughts about them,
      they never were ..once one realizes, therefore,
      that the conceptualizing mind as a tool can
      and should never be an authority in defining
      another individual, well, then of course perception
      changes somewhat, heh : ) ..the way one was
      'taught' to see people (and the self, for that matter)
      becomes merely a referenceable option among
      a great many that are possible, perhaps the
      abiding realization being that any 'static' manner
      of seeing people is bound to be blinding at
      some point if held from some mental arrogance
      or emotional selfishness
      • Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

        Fri, August 29, 2008 - 2:03 AM
        I am not sure I communicated this well. I am referring really to a time phenomenon where within and during an interaction (movement), time sort of freezes (stasis), as though allowing a blink of processing time. The effect is sort of prismatic, like looking through a crystal. In those "blinks," I feel I am absorbing some sort of information. I suppose you could look at it as though it were a strobe thing.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

          Fri, August 29, 2008 - 2:23 AM

          ahh, could be that your vrigo / aquarius mix
          makes the visual aspect of reality more
          evident ..i'm not very visual/spatial ..could
          be you communicated yourself very well
          and it could be somewhat similar experiences,
          but looking and explained so differently?
          ..i think i understand what you're saying,
          it does sound like a visual/spatial equivalent
          to some of what i said ..it'd just be something
          someone like me wouldn't be very likely to see
          first-hand perhaps ..minds having different
          natures and such
          • Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

            Tue, September 2, 2008 - 8:58 AM
            hello all:)..thank you Toren for opening a door i closed a while back..over time..i have tried to delve into my chart..for some reason the information was always overwhelming and i could never muster the energy to swim thru it all..now.. i still do not have much time and energy..but one day i came across this post..it gave me a way to kinda take it piece by piece..so as i stand on the lawn of the astrology house/houses..three things keep coming to mind in reference of empathy..
            9th house in pisces
            moon in cancer
            multiple trines..this is good and bad so it seems..i have the tendency to shoot myself in the foot a lot..
            i have a leo ascendant in leo.. i have leo in the first house and second..my vision on this is..i see these lions as keepers of the gate..like a fu lion outside a temple..standing guard..protecting the mysteries to come..i also feel that perhaps those of us with the lion..need the strength and bravado of a lion to help cope with all the extra info/energy that we process..
            ok so that is what i have come to at this point...
            thanks again
            ~R

            oh..my chiron is in aries..a wounder healer that opens up his wounds in order to help heal himself and others...if not..i shoot myself in the foot again;)lol
  • Cat
    Cat
    offline 0

    Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

    Wed, September 10, 2008 - 3:28 PM
    Very intersting. I'm also getting into Astrology, and also have a rising Leo. I equate my ability to my 9th house. Normally ruled by Sagittarius and Jupiter, my 9th is ruled by Pisces. Mercury and Venus are there, conjunct (less than 1 degree apart). My rising is 1 degree Leo, cusp of Cancer, and my moon sign (the emotion sign) is Sagittarius. Sag's call phrase is "I see" or "I percieve". Therefore, perhaps I see emotions.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

      Fri, September 12, 2008 - 6:04 PM

      interesting interpretation, Cat
      if you are just now getting into astrology
      you should very much stick-with-it
      that interpretation of your's of your chart
      is far above beginner-level
      you are perhaps 'a natural astrologer'
      • Cat
        Cat
        offline 0

        Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

        Sat, September 13, 2008 - 3:40 AM
        I love and I fear my gaining ability in Astrology. I sat in my room with 2 people I trust and started reading charts. After 2 charts, they were looking at me in wonder-it was as if I knew everything about their past and present. After 4, they urged me to try my own (at that point, I had finally figured out my ACTUAL birth time, my mother couldn't remember if it had been 11:25 or 11:29AM). All I could tell them at first was I was a grand triad fire (Aries with rising Leo and Sag moon) and that did not explain at all why I was "emo-girl". I dug deeper and with their help was finally able to unearth something-like where my uncertainty about faith and spirtuality came from, my desire for balance (say hello to Pluto in Libra, the sign opposing my Aries sun), my desire to seek firm ground (extremly little stabalizing earth in my chart, only one outer planet and my N. Node in earth, everything else excepting Pluto is fire and water), and my issues with my mother. The fear came when I realized how very open I was AFTER reading all these charts. I went to a friend's event and felt, to the fullest extent, her pain and confusion as her boyfriend dumped her. All I could do was feel and cry with her and yes even the fleeting want to destroy him physically as much as he destroyed her mentally. As of right now, I can only read someone's chart if I am certain I can get to my tree in the park to find my center again right after. I still have my bit of self-preservation intact :)
  • Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

    Sat, September 13, 2008 - 10:17 PM
    I have taken a look at my progressed chart and posted it on my page. Virgo is predominant, and Libra has shown upa bit, since that is where my Sun and Neptune are now. My Sun and Mercury are in the 12th house now. As though the kings left and now the messenger and I are talking about talking....
    • Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

      Mon, September 29, 2008 - 3:30 PM
      OK...now normally Im not one to be into the whole astrology thing, but this is creepy. I here post some of the exerpts from mine:



      You are very sensitive to others' feelings, and you understand aspects of people that even they cannot express.

      But this sensitivity can be a problem at times. You may be easily hurt by people's remarks, even when no hurt is intended. You may pretend to be patient and pleasant even when you are quite angry about a situation that you feel can't be changed. You must learn to be more forthright about your own feelings, for you have as much right as anyone to be yourself.

      A very sensitive person, you pick up impressions from others very easily. Thus you sense what another person is about and can imitate him or her if you wish. You may be unable to distinguish between what is really you and what you have picked up from someone else.

      With your sensitivity and awareness of other people's feelings, you can put yourself in someone else's place and understand that person better.

      Sometimes you seem to be surrounded by energies that are very weakening, usually from people you are with who give off very negative energies such as resentment, hostility or anger. As much as possible, you should associate with positive and optimistic persons.

      This empathy has a positive side, however, in that you understand other people very well, knowing what is going on in their minds as well as what they say.

      Even while you are young, you can easily put yourself in another person's position and understand the feelings of those who are less fortunate.

      You have a great interest in people's psychological makeup, which you express now as intuitive insights.

      You have very intense feelings, which can be a strong force in your life. But you may find it hard to understand your feelings, because they are so complicated and deep.


      (Im an animator....an artist by profession. I write songs and do photography as hobbies. You can see my work at hobbitpunk.deviantart.com)

      This aspect indicates that you have a romantic imagination and possibly some artistic creativity. You certainly have enough imagination and ability to understand beauty and create art.

      You like beautiful things and dislike anything ugly. Your love of beauty does not apply just to yourself. You prefer attractive homes and furnishings, pleasant scenery, and even art and music, in which your tastes may be unusually well developed.
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

        Mon, September 29, 2008 - 4:17 PM

        astrology can be interesting ..i find it as interesting
        as anything i've studied ..i dont even think of it as
        'mystical' ..and anyway really it might be nothing
        more than nature's synchronizations with itself on
        a grand scale, of which we often forget we are just
        a part of ..theoretically i see no reason why the
        state of jupiter or any other natural thing might not
        somehow reflect the moment of every other natural
        thing ..if its all just nature, happening all at once
        ..or sometimes i just like the fact that it helps me
        suss out my thoughts and perceptions, like a brain-
        storm tool or a focus lens, not necessarily agreeing
        with anything it says but at least then something to
        contrast and clarify my own impressions against
        ..i find it interesting
  • Re: Advanced Astrology & Empaths

    Thu, October 2, 2008 - 10:59 AM
    Good information, i'm struggling to put my whole natal chart together , but here it goes;
    sun in scorpio 5 th house,
    ascending cancer in the 1st house
    moon in aquarius 9th house
    mercury in scorpio 5th house
    saturn capricorn 8th house
    is this a hot mess or what??
    any feedback is deeply appreciated

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